tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post846773976381153114..comments2023-06-11T07:53:25.645-07:00Comments on Skeptimite: Stephanie Messenger talking SIDS and VaccinesPhil Kenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04695487441749513500noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-41369051240380407532013-03-25T03:53:32.601-07:002013-03-25T03:53:32.601-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.moat20rugbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17754646426421627630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-9941173366677140552013-03-21T22:41:15.986-07:002013-03-21T22:41:15.986-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04511650941746789576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-8943709584071324792012-09-03T19:13:19.757-07:002012-09-03T19:13:19.757-07:00Thank you so much for this, it was too funny and y...Thank you so much for this, it was too funny and you deserve a medal for having to sit through all of that and keep quiet. Years ago I did the same at one of those seminars by Meryl Dorey and her mixed bag of fellow loonies. Same old tripe being recycled after 15 years. A lot of the stuff comes from Veira Scheibner's ridiculous book. The anti-vax movement always attracts the same kind of misfits - incompetent pseudo-medical wannabees; quacks; self-taught nobodies; control freaks and many clearly suffering from untreated personality disorders. They always seem to be attracted to each other. Shame on this woman for targeting pregnant women and attempting to indoctrinate children. Really, someone mentioned it on another skeptical site, that the anti-vax movement is cult-like. They pretty much operate the same way, and have the same paranoid delusions.SueChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06839284881075643748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-29523288839235130832012-02-20T05:33:14.770-08:002012-02-20T05:33:14.770-08:00Oh sorry I forgot...just want to reply to somethin...Oh sorry I forgot...just want to reply to something SM wrote on her advert... Well SM I have raised 4 healthy children, all fully vaccinated and with no childhood diseases. Oh sorry I tell a lie my two older children both had measles before getting the vaccination for it..go figure! And just an example of their health, my 12 year old hasn't been to the doctors since he was 5 when he got his last vaccination before starting school! Both myself and husband have been vaccinated and couldn't have better health...big scare tactics on SM's part.Leannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14382577186677727230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-44661701771170686822012-02-20T04:57:19.971-08:002012-02-20T04:57:19.971-08:00Thank you for posting this. I just saw her advert...Thank you for posting this. I just saw her advert for the exact same talk here in the Blue Mountains and vaccination debate aside, what really sickened me was advertising a 100% cure for SIDS. How can she do that? This is totally misleading. Nothing is 100% certain, including vaccination. I don't like all the cloak and dagger approach either. Sending the venue address once you have paid via an SMS. This is highly suspicious stuff. It just worries me that people might actually believe this and get hurt. How can officials allow this to happen?Leannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14382577186677727230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-16253203144968934122012-02-19T22:10:41.668-08:002012-02-19T22:10:41.668-08:00It's worth noting that the supposed "chur...It's worth noting that the supposed "church" that is the church of councious living is in fact not a church but a registered business under the Australian Securities and Investments Commission (QLD BN21471629) so how is it possible that they claim religious exemption?leonthalionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04730579883035031501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-26743492414988477622012-02-19T12:29:05.692-08:002012-02-19T12:29:05.692-08:00SM then tells us the flu vaccine leads to an incre...<i><br /><br />SM then tells us the flu vaccine leads to an increase in Alzheimer’s.<br /><br />Autism: many studies have duplicated Professor Wakefields work.<br /><br />There is no autism in the unvaccinated.<br /></i><br /><br />To pubmed!<br /><br /><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11762573" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11762573</a><br /><br />CMAJ. 2001 Nov 27;165(11):1495-8.<br />Past exposure to vaccines and subsequent risk of Alzheimer's disease.<br />Verreault R, Laurin D, Lindsay J, De Serres G.<br /><br /><i> After adjustment for age, sex and education, past exposure to vaccines against diphtheria or tetanus, poliomyelitis and <b>influenza</b> was associated with <b>lower risk</b> for Alzheimer's disease (odds ratio [OR] 0.41, 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.27-0.62; OR 0.60, 95% CI 0.37-0.99; and OR 0.75, 95% CI 0.54-1.04 respectively) than no exposure to these vaccines.</i><br /><br />None of the studies that Wakefield and his supporters claim "replicate" his work have replicated the claim. Here's a partial list of (from Wakefield) and <a href="http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2011/05/still-no-independent-confirmation-of.html" rel="nofollow">They are not independent confirmation of Wakefield's work</a>.<br /><br />No unvaccinated children with autism: that's harder. I don't think there's been a US study. There's anecdotal reports. For example, Kim Stagliano (who runs the Age of Autism website) has 3 daughters, all with autism. She has said the youngest is completely unvaccinated. An unscientific study was discussed at LeftBrain/RightBrain (LB/RB) <a href="http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2011/08/internet-survey-shows-high-autism-rate-in-unvaccinated-children/" rel="nofollow">Internet Survey Shows High Autism Rate in Unvaccinated Children</a> (If you are interested in autism, I recommend LB/RB as a reliable source.)Liz Ditzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03455722013211350247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-22780218619269170862012-02-19T11:39:58.438-08:002012-02-19T11:39:58.438-08:00Phil, was it SM or an audience member or SM who cl...Phil, was it SM or an audience member or SM who claimed<br /><br /><i>In the US it is now illegal to grow your own vegetables.</i><br /><br />Somebody tell Michelle Obama, she has a vegetable garden at the White House.<br /><br /><i><br /><a href="http://www.cvbizjournal.com/general/local-news/food-price-inflation-spurs-home-vegetable-garden-growth.html" rel="nofollow">Growth of the “kitchen garden”</a><br /><br />Roger Doiron is a founder of Kitchen Gardeners International and a big part of the movement that convinced Michelle Obama to plant an organic vegetable garden at the White House.<br /></i><br /><br />Honestly, the gullibility of these folk is bottomless.Liz Ditzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03455722013211350247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-38806460073087927832012-02-19T11:33:00.675-08:002012-02-19T11:33:00.675-08:00Which link?
http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensa...Which link? <br /><br />http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html<br /><br />or<br /><br />http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2012/01/oh-no-the-us-has-paid-out-2-billion-in-vaccine-injury-compensation-that-must-mean-vaccines-are-dange.html<br /><br />I don't believe she is correct about "each type of injury has a capped amount", but I am not a lawyer so I could be wrong.Liz Ditzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03455722013211350247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-91259413115622278232012-02-19T02:49:58.565-08:002012-02-19T02:49:58.565-08:00Creepy stalker is creepyCreepy stalker is creepyPhil Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04695487441749513500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-92149555552438013342012-02-19T01:49:33.518-08:002012-02-19T01:49:33.518-08:00They have quite a history of stalking pregnant wom...They have quite a history of stalking pregnant women. The VAIS newsletter contained instructions for activism, one point was if you noticed a pregnant woman in your area, note her address (you don't have to know her name) and let VAIS know so they would then send antivax material to her home.<br />http://www.antivaxxers.com/?p=3687Fuzztwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06971264668165314266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-57399720910013943292012-02-19T01:45:12.885-08:002012-02-19T01:45:12.885-08:00The Church of Conscious Living was set up by Jane ...The Church of Conscious Living was set up by Jane Leonforte, a former vice-president of Vaccination Information South Australia, after she moved to Queensland. This is why it was created:<br /><br />"To this end, we have decided to create a 'religion', so, amongst other things, we can claim 'religious exemption', if the need ever arises, for ourselves and our children."<br /><br />... excerpt from AVN newsletter, Dec 2007<br />http://orbisvitae.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=248070&site_id=1Fuzztwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06971264668165314266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-46785389145205776102012-02-18T22:57:51.548-08:002012-02-18T22:57:51.548-08:00A lot of it was new to me. Before going, I had hea...A lot of it was new to me. Before going, I had heard of SM but no details. The whole Toxic Gas thing was new to me. Considering she is in our home town, I think I will be keeping closer tabs.Phil Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04695487441749513500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-25065889214806625362012-02-18T22:55:59.709-08:002012-02-18T22:55:59.709-08:00I had thought I got one of the forms when I collec...I had thought I got one of the forms when I collected brochures, but I must have missed that one. No mention was made of ethics approvals.Phil Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04695487441749513500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-88303168243863351542012-02-18T22:54:38.921-08:002012-02-18T22:54:38.921-08:00I think she meant that each type of injury has a c...I think she meant that each type of injury has a capped amount. I can't open that link for some reason.Phil Kenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04695487441749513500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-4947921163094310172012-02-18T21:03:04.971-08:002012-02-18T21:03:04.971-08:00So.... basically, nothing new. Nothing at all. Sam...So.... basically, nothing new. Nothing at all. Same BS, different seminar.The Pinstriped Aspiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18053819224306993249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-57572268956608238762012-02-18T20:42:57.020-08:002012-02-18T20:42:57.020-08:00"SM then promoted a study she wants to conduc..."SM then promoted a study she wants to conduct into the usual sleeping positions of babies<br /><br /> 300-350 babies required <br /> need to check the sleeping positions of babies over 14 nights."<br /><br />I wonder if she realises that she needs to gain approval from an ethics committee to collect data from humans for research.mochuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05547803435662645775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-38798791134995297702012-02-18T20:26:42.984-08:002012-02-18T20:26:42.984-08:00Stephanie Messenger's claim that "efficac...Stephanie Messenger's claim that "efficacy of vaccines in clinical trials is determined by raised antibody levels" is partially correct. Efficacy is usually determined by incidence of the disease in the study treatment allocation arms.mochuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05547803435662645775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2501501765375352802.post-31426372850645468572012-02-18T20:20:10.978-08:002012-02-18T20:20:10.978-08:00Boy I bet your brain hurt!
Let's look at her ...Boy I bet your brain hurt!<br /><br />Let's look at her claims about the US vaccination program:<br /><br /><i><br />It is compulsory to vaccinate in the US<br />A vaccination compensation fund was setup with $2billion<br />Capped pay outs, so that amount represents a lot of claims<br />Keeps running out of funds<br />Pays about ¼ of applications<br />Pays compensation for vaccine induced autism.<br /></i><br /><br />She's actively wrong about some elements of the US: we have private health care, and vaccines aren't "compulsory". They are however required for school entry, but in most states, philosophical exemptions are entirely too easy to get. Medical and religious exemptions are also available.<br /><br />The <a href="http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html" rel="nofollow">National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program</a> (NVICP) is funded by a fee (I guess you could say tax), paid by the manufacturers, based on each dose of vaccine produced. It has never "run out of money". I'm not sure what she means by "capped payouts" but she's almost certainly wrong there. Perhaps she was referring to <a href="http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/vaccinetable.html" rel="nofollow">table injuries</a>.<br /><br />I wrote a blog post about the facts relative to (NVICP) and payout, <a href="http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2012/01/oh-no-the-us-has-paid-out-2-billion-in-vaccine-injury-compensation-that-must-mean-vaccines-are-dange.html?cid=6a00d83451b6fc69e20162ffeef64c970d" rel="nofollow">Oh NO The US has paid out $2 Billion in Vaccine Injury Compensation--That Must Mean Vaccines are Dangerous!!</a><br /><br />One of my commenters noted <i> think it's also worth noting that of the 2,892 claims compensated, nearly half (1,266) were related to the DTP with whole cell Pertussis. Since the DTPwP is no longer used, it would make sense not to consider these awards if using the VICP compensation figures as an indication of safety.</i>. I should take her advice and re-do the post analysis.<br /><br />Exactly one case of "vaccine-induced autism" has been compensated, and that's complicated.<br /><br />About HALF the claims are compensated...depending on how you look at the numbers. Again, it's complicated.Liz Ditzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03455722013211350247noreply@blogger.com